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von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-13, 10:32  Spam?  
What's the difference between "demokratisch" and "urdemokratisch"? Does "urdemokratisch" relate at all to "grass roots"?
Grass roots = the ordinary people in a society, movement, or organization:
She spent years trying to design education policy from the grass roots up.
von alex-k (DE), 2017-09-13, 10:52  Spam?  
Do you have an example sentence? I think people might use this term in different ways. Without any other context, I would say it's democracy without caveats, ancient Greece style. "Everybody" gets one equal vote. "Ur-" typically hints at the origin of whatever follows. Demokratisch is what we have today but it has been changed and adapted from the original.
urdemokratisch  #878497
von Ivy (DE), Last modified: 2017-09-13, 10:56  Spam?  
I think what is meant here is:
fundamentally/thoroughly democratic

or maybe: a democrat to the core durch und durch
von xn (GB), Last modified: 2017-09-13, 11:00  Spam?  
perhaps the beginnings of democracy in ancient times:

which could mean democratic through and through yes
von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-13, 11:04  Spam?  
Thanks, Ivy and Alex. Unfortunately I can't put my sentence in for non-disclosure reasons and I can't find a similar one on the Internet. Based on what the two of you have said, I'm currently thinking "thoroughly democratic", although it does still sound like "grassroots democracy" to me Wikipedia(EN): Grassroots_democracy
("Grassroots" is, as far as I can make out, generally considered a positive word in democracy, it's a kind or "power to the people"/"power to the little guy" kind of phrase). I can't use "grassroots democratic" though, as that sounds odd, I'd just have to say "grassroots" and assume people would make the same connections as me.
von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-13, 11:06  Spam?  
PS I think I can say, though, that my sentence definitely  doesn't actually refer to history or the beginnings of democracy or ancient civilisation, it refers to something in the present, which is being described as "urdemokratisch".
von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-13, 11:07  Spam?  
Thanks, xn
von lifo, 2017-09-13, 11:54  Spam?  78.34.184....
I would see "grass roots" more as "basisdemokratisch" while "urdemokratisch" is more "regarding the basics of democracy" like e.g. parliamentary debate (something which President Groper is not very fond of).
von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-13, 11:59  Spam?  
Thanks, lifo
archdemocratic  #878516
von Proteus-, 2017-09-13, 13:16  Spam?  194.118.54....
von alex-k (DE), 2017-09-13, 13:26  Spam?  
Today, both in the UK and in Germany there are representative democracies in place. We elect a representative that makes decisions on our behalf. It's democratic but not quite like in ancient Greece. The original democratic model gave every eligible citizen a vote on every issue. That's urdemokratisch. There may be more decisions like this at the grass roots level but I would not consider them synonymous. (I know I'm simplifying both the current systems of government and history.)
von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-13, 14:23  Spam?  
Thanks, alex and Proteus
von lifo, 2017-09-13, 14:34  Spam?  84.44.183....
There are different possible meanings for "ur-". I would rather think [3] in wiktionary is intended. The ancient society of Athens had democracy among free people, yet the economy was largely based on slavery. Not a good role model for European countries.
von MichaelK (US), 2017-09-14, 16:36  Spam?  
lifo makes a good point. The meaning of ur- often isn't clear, especially with invented words carrying that prefix. I would think that urdemokratisch has a close relationship to the Urabstimmung, which is a referendum of sorts conducted under specific rules depending on the organization in question. The point of almost all Urabstimmungen is that as many people as possible participate in them.
von Windfall (GB), 2017-09-14, 17:02  Spam?  
Thanks, lifo and Micahel. 4;Michael, in retrospect, that makes sense for my context. They were holding a vote on something (a favourite food/drink, not anything political) and I imagine they wanted as many people to vote as possible.

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